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What’s different here?JOHN BUNCH: I would say that there’s a couple of things. Checking out should be a habit, an excellent routine. Our philosophy at Zappos is to WOW with service and experience, not with anything that relates directly to monetary compensation (for example, we don’t offer blanket discounts or promotions to customers). There’s actually probably more structure in a holacratic company than there is in traditional companies. Like what does this actually mean to somebody who shows up on a Monday?JOHN BUNCH: So what it really looks like is throwing away the traditional org chart that we’re all accustomed to where we fit in one place in the organization. First in the form of self-managed teams, and now increasingly in the form of self-managing organizations. Ethan Bernstein, Harvard Business School professor, and John Bunch, holacracy implementation lead at Zappos, discuss the online retailer’s transition to a flat, self-managed organization. There are more roles in John’s organization today than there were people and job descriptions in the old Zappos, which means, logically, there is more to manage.CURT NICKISCH: So that said, that management is filtering out through the workforce at an organization, this whole transition still seems like a lot to manage, so to speak. Where you want to go in the organization is usually the position that your boss is in currently. What does this look like for an employee? And it’s an interesting image to see people navigating around this organization and moving to different parts.

And so we’re trying to get better at defining what the work is and getting clear on what that work is. But ultimately it’s up to you to figure out where you want to go.CURT NICKISCH: I’m thinking about the jungle gym in my schoolyard playground and there were a lot of kids having fun on it. And additionally, we’re investing time in a dip in productivity. And I just wonder what that’s like for somebody? It is quite easy to read this publication The Zappos Experience: 5 Principles To Inspire, Engage, And WOW due to the fact that you don't require to bring this published The Zappos Experience: 5 Principles To Inspire, Engage, And WOW anywhere. So if I think back to when Gabe Newell, the founder of Valve software, one of the organizations that’s not holacratic, but is very well-known for being self organized.

There are also a lot of kids who fell off and bruised their knees and were crying. And as we looked at self-management and as we looked at holacracy, we really saw it as an opportunity to deepen our commitment to our core values.

One of them is this Do you ever understand guide The Zappos Experience: 5 Principles To Inspire, Engage, And WOW Yeah, this is an extremely interesting e-book to check out. Admit it, bosses are the best. Even when we don’t enjoy taking orders from someone, there is something so comforting about having a supervisor.

Code Your perception of this book Claude Debussy (Reaktion Books ...Ebook Power Systems Grounding, by Md. So you’re looking around at where you’re at today and what are all the other opportunities that exist. And there are other people that just want something stable, they just want to come in every day and do what they’re accustomed to and know what that is. The other thing I would say is that much more so in this type of organization, you have the ability to chart your own course. And this is a framework for us to have more open conversations with one another about what works should we be doing and what are the right decisions in that work.CURT NICKISCH: Ethan, I want to ask you, it’s so interesting to hear about Zappos making a long-term commitment to this, which is too early, it sounds like, John, to really know whether it’s paying off. It sounds like there’s a lot of pitching and selecting and trying to decide between what sounds like a lot of different roles.

We’ve started to build up the apps, the systems to help us run this, all of that cost money. Ethan Bernstein, Harvard Business School professor, and John Bunch, holacracy implementation lead at Zappos, discuss the online retailer’s transition to a flat, self-managed...CURT NICKISCH: Welcome to the HBR IdeaCast from Harvard Business Review. In our old structure we had about 150 managers. You can look it up anywhere across the company. But Ethan, where does Zappos fit in to what’s happening in management today? When you think about coming into the workplace, a normal, traditional, hierarchical workplace, nobody needs to tell you the rules of the game. And when you’re doing various different things, that becomes a more challenging question. What are all of the roles? But at the end of the day, we think that that’s the right thing for our employees and also for the company.CURT NICKISCH: Ethan Bernstein, I want to ask you now, because at Harvard Business School you study self-management, you study transparency.

There’s something in common across all the organizations that adopt some form of self-organization.

If you want a raise, what do you do?JOHN BUNCH: So I think when we think about traditional organizations, obviously there’s a job ladder. The Zappos Experience takes you through—and beyond—the playful, offbeat company culture Zappos has become famous for.

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